tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post2152028723668455442..comments2023-09-22T15:44:10.411-04:00Comments on CUUMBAYA: More on cultural misappropriationJoel Monkahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post-38811584396652407662008-09-30T10:16:00.000-04:002008-09-30T10:16:00.000-04:00FYI - Daniel Dennett's suggestion can be read onli...FYI - Daniel Dennett's suggestion can be read online here:<BR/><BR/>Teach Our Children Well<BR/>http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/daniel_c_dennett/2007/03/teach_our_children_well.html<BR/><BR/>A UU connection with this is that Dennett teaches at a historically Universalist college (Tufts).Steve Caldwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12333184436301854794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post-77631571493759144682008-09-30T10:02:00.000-04:002008-09-30T10:02:00.000-04:00Joel wrote:-snip-"I'm not generalizing about all a...Joel wrote:<BR/>-snip-<BR/><I>"I'm not generalizing about all atheists, but thinking specifically of the one you linked to."</I><BR/><BR/>Joel,<BR/><BR/>I would say that Daniel Dennett is the "Wilford Brimley" of the modern-day collection of atheist writers.<BR/><BR/>Unlike Hitchens and Dawkins, he is much less strident and more like a grandfatherly figure.<BR/><BR/>Of course, my perception is based on reading two of his books and watching video clips online.<BR/><BR/>Then Joel wrote:<BR/>-snip-<BR/><I>"If the expressed purpose for teaching the course is not to help seekers find the path they were looking for, but rather to innoculate them against getting any religion at all, I would question his ability to fairly discuss those religions."</I><BR/><BR/>Dennett's suggestion that we learn the basic facts about all religions is motivated by a hope that there will be less religiously-motivated violence if we know something about people of other religions.<BR/><BR/>It's harder to stir up religiously-motivated hatred against another if you know that the attempted incitement to violence is based in untruths.<BR/><BR/>And that's why he suggests learning about all religions would have a "preventive" or "public health" aspect to it because it would prevent violence.<BR/><BR/>His suggestion seems very reasonable and something that many Unitarian Universalists would agree with.<BR/><BR/>Given the level of religiously-motivated violence in the world, his suggestion makes sense.Steve Caldwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12333184436301854794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post-21062370620646321272008-09-30T08:24:00.000-04:002008-09-30T08:24:00.000-04:00Steve, I'm not generalizing about all atheists, bu...Steve, I'm not generalizing about all atheists, but thinking specifically of the one you linked to. If the expressed purpose for teaching the course is not to help seekers find the path they were looking for, but rather to innoculate them against getting any religion at all, I would question his ability to fairly discuss those religions. I have known atheists who describe religion as a mental illness, and wouldn't have wanted them as an RE teacher.Joel Monkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post-60069383126545974262008-09-29T23:13:00.000-04:002008-09-29T23:13:00.000-04:00Joel wrote:-snip-"I might well object to having at...Joel wrote:<BR/>-snip-<BR/><I>"I might well object to having atheists do the teaching, too."</I><BR/><BR/>Joel,<BR/><BR/>Gee -- it sounds like you would want to discriminate on the basis of religious belief without respect to teaching ability.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Joel wrote:<BR/>-snip-<BR/><I>"A better model may be the military chaplain, who has his own beliefs, but will perform or even teach other faiths for soldiers of those traditions."</I><BR/><BR/>So -- a humanist UU minister, ethical culture minister, or other humanist clergy serving in a chaplain role would be OK here?<BR/><BR/>If taught as a factual descriptive curriculum that describes the history, creeds, practices, etc of each religion, this could be taught by anybody of any religious persuasion.<BR/><BR/>By sticking to this curriculum suggestion of just the facts, there would be no "sneers" and no implication that any one faith (or no faith) is somehow superior to the alternatives.<BR/><BR/>An online example of this is the Ontario Consultants for Religious Tolerance web site:<BR/><BR/>http://www.religioustolerance.org/<BR/><BR/>I'll politely point out that your generalization about atheists reflects an unfair generalization and a prejudice.Steve Caldwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12333184436301854794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post-17251705583162872212008-09-29T21:46:00.000-04:002008-09-29T21:46:00.000-04:00I might well object to having atheists do the teac...I might well object to having atheists do the teaching, too. It is not possible for a human being to be truly objective about a belief system. (if it possible to be objective about anything outside the lab) I'm afraid that all too often, sneers would be in the voice if not in the text. I've had such treatment from some atheists in debate that Christians- people who believe I'm going to Hell- came to my defense.<BR/><BR/>A better model may be the military chaplain, who has his own beliefs, but will perform or even teach other faiths for soldiers of those traditions.Joel Monkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post-1510909697243322312008-09-29T21:07:00.000-04:002008-09-29T21:07:00.000-04:00Joel,The atheist philosophy professor Daniel Denne...Joel,<BR/><BR/>The atheist philosophy professor Daniel Dennett has suggested that teaching the facts about world religions in all accredited public and private schools:<BR/><BR/>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F0upp0cGHo<BR/><BR/>Although he doesn't mention it here, he thinks this would reduce the more "toxic" aspects of religion in the world and knowing about other religions would be akin to a "public health" measure.<BR/><BR/>Some religious leaders have objected to Dennett's suggestion to teach "just the facts" of world religions in schools.Steve Caldwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12333184436301854794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post-69908220955388447682008-09-29T18:14:00.000-04:002008-09-29T18:14:00.000-04:00You make a good point. But someone has to host suc...You make a good point. But someone has to host such a thing; it won't come together on its own.Joel Monkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631333436948102576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20795009.post-29007820629335097732008-09-29T17:54:00.000-04:002008-09-29T17:54:00.000-04:00A denominational program would not be adequate, be...A denominational program would not be adequate, because it would be naturally partial, in our case promoting "liberal religion" as the valid, appropriate and fair way of doing religious things. UUs, being liberal, are not immune to partiality. But your plan makes a lot of sense if it is carried out by educated and prepared people such as graduates in Religious Studies. The American Academy of Religion has a complete list.Jaume de Marcos Andreuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04335914984366835391noreply@blogger.com